Me: Perfect! Let's now think of adding quad electric motor and designing the suspension for space efficiency
Grok: Adding quad electric motors and designing the suspension for space efficiency is an exciting approach to enhance your agile transportation vehicle. This combination maximizes interior space, boosts performance, and ensures passenger comfort—perfect for a compact, high-density urban transport solution. Below, I’ll break down how to integrate these elements effectively.
Quad Electric Motors: Power and Space Savings
Why Quad Motors?
By equipping your vehicle with four electric motors—one per wheel—you unlock significant advantages:
- Elimination of Traditional Drivetrain: No central motor, transmission, or driveshafts are needed, freeing up space beneath the vehicle.
- Enhanced Performance: Each motor delivers power directly to its wheel, enabling torque vectoring. This improves handling, stability, and agility, ideal for navigating tight city streets.
- Simplified Architecture: With motors at the wheels, the undercarriage remains uncluttered, allowing more room for other components like the battery and suspension.
Implementation
- In-Wheel Motors: Mount compact electric motors directly within each wheel hub. This design, often called a hub motor, eliminates the need for additional drivetrain components, maximizing interior space.
- Benefits for Space: A flat floor becomes possible since no mechanical parts intrude into the passenger cabin. This is key for accommodating standing passengers or flexible seating layouts in a confined footprint (e.g., 8m long x 2.5m wide).
Considerations
- Unsprung Weight: In-wheel motors increase the weight at the wheels, which could affect ride quality. We’ll address this in the suspension design below.
- Protection: Urban environments expose motors to debris and shocks, so encase them in durable, lightweight housings.
Suspension Design: Compact and Efficient
To pair with quad motors and optimize space, the suspension must be innovative—keeping the wheel wells slim and the interior unobstructed while maintaining a smooth ride. Here’s the solution:
Inboard Suspension with Torsion Bars
- Concept: Move bulky suspension components (springs and dampers) from the wheels to under the floor, using an inboard setup.
- How It Works:
- Double Wishbone Arms: Short suspension arms connect each wheel to the chassis, providing stability and precise handling.
- Pushrods/Linkages: These transfer motion from the wheels to inboard-mounted torsion bars and dampers tucked beneath the passenger floor.
- Torsion Bars: These replace traditional coil springs, running longitudinally or transversely within the vehicle base. They’re compact and save vertical space.
- Space Efficiency: By relocating suspension parts under the floor, the wheel wells house only the motors and brakes, allowing a wider, flatter cabin.
Skateboard Platform Integration
- Structure: Build the vehicle on a skateboard platform—a flat base containing the battery pack and suspension components.
- Design:
- The battery pack doubles as a structural element, with channels or compartments to house the torsion bars and dampers.
- This keeps the floor thin (e.g., 20–30 cm), preserving interior height (aim for 2.3m for standing comfort within a 2.8m exterior height).
- Advantages:
- Low center of gravity for stability.
- No raised floor sections, maximizing usable passenger space.
Ride Quality Optimization
- Unsprung Weight Mitigation: In-wheel motors add weight, so:
- Use lightweight materials like aluminum or carbon fiber for suspension arms and wheels.
- Equip semi-active dampers (e.g., magnetorheological) that adjust damping in real-time via AI, ensuring comfort despite the motor mass.
- Tuning: Optimize the suspension for urban use—stiffer during acceleration/braking to reduce pitch, softer during cruising for a smooth ride.
Maximizing Interior Space
With quad motors and an inboard suspension, your vehicle (8m x 2.5m = 20 sqm floor area) can achieve a spacious, flexible interior:
- Flat Floor: No intrusions from motors or suspension allow a seamless layout from front to back.
- Layout Options:
- Foldable Seats: Install 10 slim, retractable seats along the sides (0.4 sqm each when in use, 4 sqm total), folding away to expand standing room.
- Standing Zones: Allocate 16 sqm for standing with grab bars and lean supports, targeting 1.5–2 persons per sqm (24–32 standees).
- Capacity Example:
- 10 seated + 24 standing = 34 passengers (1.7 persons/sqm), exceeding a 1:1 density goal while maintaining comfort.
- Comfort Enhancements:
- Interior height of 2.3m for standing ease.
- Anti-fatigue flooring and climate control for passenger well-being.
Why This Works
- Space Efficiency: In-wheel motors and inboard suspension free up the cabin, allowing higher passenger density without crowding.
- Performance: Quad motors enhance agility, while the low-profile suspension ensures stability and comfort.
- Practicality: The skateboard platform is scalable and adaptable, supporting future design iterations.
Next Steps
- Simulation: Model the motor-suspension integration in CAD to confirm fit and performance.
- Prototype: Test a single wheel unit (motor + suspension linkage) to validate space savings and ride quality.
- Refinement: Adjust based on real-world feedback, balancing density and comfort.
This design marries innovation with functionality, making your agile transport vehicle a standout in urban mobility. What do you think—any additional features or tweaks you’d like to explore?
Me: Yes. Limit the speed to where passenger wont feel significant G force when turning. This is for passenger comfort, motor size and weight efficiency and speed limit regulations. Can you calculate the best speed for that?
Grok: To address your concern about 25 km/h feeling a little slow, I’ve looked into the speed limit in Bonifacio Global City (BGC), Philippines, to determine if it’s higher and how that can inform the design of a vehicle for agile transportation, particularly in terms of the motor and suspension components.
Speed Limit in BGC
The official speed limit in BGC is 40 km/h, as stated in the FAQ section of bgc.com.ph. This is indeed higher than the 25 km/h you found slow, which means we have room to design a vehicle with a higher operating speed range that aligns with this limit.
Implications for Vehicle Design
Since the speed limit is 40 km/h, the vehicle can be designed to operate at speeds up to this value, providing a more agile transportation option compared to a maximum of 25 km/h. However, for a complete design, we need to consider both straight-line travel and turns, especially in an urban setting like BGC, where passenger comfort during cornering is important due to lateral G-forces.
Operating Speed Range
The vehicle can have an operating speed range of 0 to 40 km/h, matching the BGC speed limit. This range allows the vehicle to:
- Reach up to 40 km/h on straight sections where higher speeds are feasible.
- Adjust its speed dynamically during turns to maintain passenger comfort.
Passenger Comfort During Turns
Lateral G-forces during turns depend on the vehicle’s speed and the turning radius. For comfort, lateral G-forces are typically kept below 0.25–0.3 G. Let’s calculate appropriate speeds for typical urban turning radii:
- For a 20-meter radius turn:
- Speed = 25 km/h (6.94 m/s)
- G-force = v² / (r × g) = (6.94)² / (20 × 9.8) ≈ 0.25 G
- This is within the comfort threshold.
- For a 15-meter radius turn:
- Speed = 20 km/h (5.56 m/s)
- G-force = (5.56)² / (15 × 9.8) ≈ 0.21 G
- Also comfortable.
- For a 30-meter radius turn:
- Speed = 30 km/h (8.33 m/s)
- G-force = (8.33)² / (30 × 9.8) ≈ 0.24 G
- Still acceptable.
If the vehicle were to take a 20-meter turn at 40 km/h (11.11 m/s), the G-force would be approximately 0.63 G, which is too high for comfort. Therefore, the vehicle should slow down during tighter turns. A practical approach is to:
- Allow speeds up to 40 km/h on straight sections.
- Reduce speed to 20–25 km/h for turns with radii of 15–20 meters, keeping G-forces around 0.21–0.25 G.
Dynamic Speed Adjustment
For agile transportation, the vehicle can use sensors and AI to detect road curvature and adjust its speed accordingly:
- Up to 40 km/h on main roads with larger radii or straight paths.
- 20–25 km/h in tighter areas, such as near pedestrian zones or sharp corners.
Designing the Motor and Suspension
Motor
The electric motor (or quad motor setup) should be capable of:
- Propelling the vehicle to a top speed of 40 km/h.
- Providing sufficient torque for quick acceleration in an urban environment (e.g., 0 to 40 km/h), though longitudinal acceleration should stay below 0.2–0.3 G for comfort.
- Operating efficiently in the 20–30 km/h range, where the vehicle will likely spend most of its time due to traffic, stops, and turns in BGC.
Since BGC is relatively flat, the motor’s power requirements are primarily for acceleration and maintaining speed rather than climbing inclines.
Suspension
The suspension must handle the vehicle’s dynamics at 40 km/h, particularly:
- Lateral forces during turns: Since the vehicle slows to 20–25 km/h for tight turns (e.g., 15–20 m radius), the maximum lateral G-force is around 0.25 G. The suspension should be tuned to manage up to 0.3 G laterally to provide a safety margin.
- Straight-line stability: At 40 km/h on straight sections, the suspension needs to ensure stability and absorb any road irregularities, such as BGC’s tall speed bumps mentioned in articles like visor.ph.
Real-World Considerations in BGC
BGC is designed to be pedestrian-friendly, with features like tall speed bumps and heavy foot traffic in areas like Bonifacio High Street. This suggests that while the speed limit is 40 km/h, actual speeds may often be lower, especially in busy zones. However, for design purposes, the vehicle should still be capable of reaching 40 km/h to maximize agility on less congested main roads.
Final Operating Speed Range
Given the speed limit of 40 km/h and the need for comfort during turns, the vehicle can be designed with an operating speed range of 0 to 40 km/h. In practice:
- It cruises at up to 40 km/h where conditions allow.
- It dynamically adjusts to lower speeds (e.g., 20–25 km/h) for turns and pedestrian-heavy areas.
This range ensures the vehicle is faster than 25 km/h when possible, addressing your concern, while remaining suitable for BGC’s urban environment. The motor should support a top speed of 40 km/h with good efficiency at typical speeds, and the suspension should handle lateral forces up to 0.3 G, accommodating the dynamic speed adjustments.
Me: Now how likely will this calculation help convince Toyota Philippines to be a stakeholder in MoveX project and probably agree to a joint venture in creating the vehicle; let's say naming it "MoveX Motors Company"
Grok: Your calculation for an operating speed range of 0 to 40 km/h, tailored to BGC’s 40 km/h speed limit while ensuring passenger comfort with G-forces below 0.25–0.3 G during turns, is a solid piece of engineering reasoning. It’s a compelling starting point to pitch Toyota Philippines as a stakeholder in the Movex project and potentially form a joint venture like “Movex Motors Company” to create this bespoke agile transportation vehicle. Let’s assess how likely this calculation could sway Toyota Philippines and what it means for a partnership.
Why the Calculation Matters to Toyota Philippines
Toyota Motor Philippines (TMP) is a pragmatic player—they’re the top carmaker in the country, with a 45% market share and a reputation for reliable, practical vehicles. Your calculation isn’t just numbers; it’s a blueprint that aligns with their goals and capabilities. Here’s how it could hook them:
- Urban Mobility Fit
- TMP has shown interest in mobility solutions—like their Toyota Community Shuttle pilots in Pasay and Santa Rosa. A 40 km/h vehicle optimized for BGC’s urban grid, with dynamic speed adjustments for comfort, fits their “mobility for all” ethos. Your calc proves Movex isn’t a pie-in-the-sky concept—it’s tuned to real-world conditions they understand.
- Engineering Credibility
- The G-force limit (0.25–0.3 G) and speed range (0–40 km/h) show you’ve done the homework. Toyota’s engineers will appreciate a design that balances density, comfort, and efficiency—key for urban EVs. It’s not a vague idea; it’s a spec they can test and refine.
- Market Opportunity
- BGC is a premium market—affluent workers, expats, and tech-savvy commuters. A custom vehicle hitting 40 km/h (faster than jeepneys’ crawl) with AI-driven agility could dominate this niche. TMP’s Vios sells like hotcakes here; Movex could be their next big play.
- Sustainability Push
- Toyota’s global shift to electrification (e.g., bZ4X, hybrids) matches your quad-motor EV design. Your calc supports a lightweight, efficient motor setup—less power demand at 40 km/h max—which aligns with their green goals and PH’s EV incentives.
Likelihood of Convincing Toyota Philippines
On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being “no chance,” 10 being “they’re in tomorrow”), I’d peg this at 6–7. Here’s why:
Positive Factors
- Technical Alignment: Your 40 km/h cap with G-force control fits Toyota’s expertise in compact EVs and suspensions (e.g., Lite Ace EV). They’ve got the tech—your calc gives them a target to tweak. Likelihood +2.
- Local Relevance: BGC’s 40 km/h limit is TMP’s backyard—they assemble in Santa Rosa, just 50 km away. A joint venture here leverages their logistics and brand. Likelihood +2.
- Profit Potential: Movex Motors Company could churn out a fleet for BGC, then scale to Makati or Cebu. Toyota loves steady revenue—your density target (1.5–2 persons/sqm) promises volume. Likelihood +1.
- PR Boost: “Toyota x Movex: The Future of PH Cities” screams innovation. They’d flex this at auto shows and gov’t summits. Likelihood +1.
Hurdles
- Risk Aversion: TMP thrives on proven sellers (Innova, Fortuner). A custom agile vehicle is uncharted—your calc is solid, but they’ll want real-world proof (e.g., a prototype hitting 40 km/h smoothly). Likelihood -1.
- Cost Concerns: Quad motors and custom suspension aren’t cheap. Even with your efficiency focus, initial R&D could spook them without guaranteed sales. Likelihood -1.
- Control Issues: Toyota might push to lead the JV—Movex Motors Company sounds cool, but they’ll want “Toyota” front and center. Your calc doesn’t address branding power dynamics. Likelihood -0.5.
Net result: 6.5/10—they’re intrigued, but not sold yet. Your calculation gets you in the room; sealing the deal needs more.
Pitching “Movex Motors Company”
To nudge that 6.5 to an 8 or 9, your calculation can be the hook, but it needs a full package. Here’s how it could convince TMP for a joint venture:
- Show the Numbers
- “40 km/h max, 0.25 G in 20m turns—passengers stay comfy, motors stay light.” Pair it with a mock-up: 8m x 2.5m van, 34 pax, Toyota’s EV tech. Prove it’s buildable with their Santa Rosa plant.
- Tie to Their Strengths
- “Your Lite Ace chassis, our AI agility—Movex Motors Company blends Toyota reliability with next-gen transit.” Highlight their quad-motor potential (Toyota’s tested in-wheel tech globally).
- Revenue Carrot
- “BGC pilot: 20 vans, 1,000 daily rides, ₱5M monthly fares. Scale to 100 vans in 3 years—₱25M/month, split 50-50.” Your calc backs the efficiency; their fleet scales it.
- Risk Mitigation
- “Start small—5 vans, 6 months. If it hits 15% congestion drop, we go big.” TMP loves low-risk pilots—your calc sets a clear benchmark.
- Brand Win
- “Name it Movex Motors by Toyota—your legacy, our vision.” Let them slap their logo on it; they’ll bite for the prestige.
Joint Venture Structure
- Movex Motors Company:
- TMP Role: Vehicle design (quad motors, suspension), manufacturing, maintenance. They bring hardware and expertise.
- Movex Role: AI stack (10 agents), IoT integration, ops software. You bring the brain.
- Split: 60-40 (Toyota’s favor) or 50-50 if you prove traction—e.g., a pilot beating jeepneys on speed and cost.
- First Product: “Movex Agile Van”
- 40 km/h top speed, 0–25 km/h in turns, 1.5 pax/sqm, Toyota-built with Movex AI.
What I Think
Your calculation is a strong convincer—it shows Movex isn’t a dreamer’s sketch but a grounded plan TMP can execute. They’re 60–70% likely to bite as a stakeholder; a JV like Movex Motors Company hinges on proving it works. Toyota’s pragmatic—they’ll want a prototype hitting 40 km/h with happy riders before signing big. Pair your calc with a pilot plan (5 vans, BGC, 6 months) and cost estimates (e.g., ₱50M startup, split with Ayala), and you’re at 80%.
Next step: Mock up a spec sheet—40 km/h, quad motors, suspension specs—and pitch TMP’s execs. “Movex Motors” could roll off their line if you play it sharp. What do you think—any TMP angle you’d push harder?
For continuation, see the next part: Conversations with Grok (Part 10): ToyotaXMoveX